Wednesday, January 2, 2008

El Gitarre Del Muerto: Restoration of a mid 60's Supro Dual-Tone - Part I

So, I have this 1965ish Supro Dual Tone guitar. There is a lot I like about it, like the neck (24 3/4ish scale, medium heavy, round shap and niced, rounded sides which gives it an excellent feel and playability), the resoglass body. And a cool shape and manly black and white color scheme does not make me like it less.

However, I've never been happy with the pickups/ electronics. Those pickups are famous for being fat and loud. Mine are extremely quiet and sounds muffeled with bad separation of notes. So obviously something needs to be done. I've been through the simple steps, like adjusting pickup height and cleaning the pots, so no it's time to get a little more serious.

Problem: Comments like the the one above makes it look like I actually know what I'm doing. That couldn't be farther away from the truth. My knowledge of guitar electronics is that the pickups have a magnet in them, and the vibrating strings over a pu makes a current that somehow is turned into sound in an amp (or something similar to an amp). End of story.
Solution: I have power tools and a soldering iron, and are not afraid of using them!

But seriously, since I don't have a clue about electronics, I figure the good old trail and fail route will have to do. And as long as I don't do anything that permanently damage the guitar, I'm fine. So first thing I did was to remove the neck pickup and add a resonantor pickup (Barcus Berry Hi-Tech). And improve in sound showed me that the problem could at least partially be in the pickups. So I dug up some 60's Supro pickup from the good ol' internet.

The pickups in the Dual-Tone is just in a lot for guitars from Valco, Supro and National. Only difference is the silk screen print on the covers. To be, it wasn't important to get the "correct" look on the covers. In any case, I could easily swap the covers on the old/ new pu's to get the correct look. On the photo below, the original one is on the right.

So these guitars have a resoglass body is made up of two halfs, which are held together with 5 screws. Really easy yo take apart, the neck is only attached to the upper half, so neck alignment isn't affected at all. The photo below shows the inside of the guitar (pickups are facing down to the table).

Here is a snap midway through the process. Neck pu has been replaced, bridge pu is still the original. Notice the I've removed the bridge there. It's not attached to anything, it just slides away once the string pressure is released.


So, in with the bridge pickup, eyeballing the height of the pickups and tested. The small sound clip in the comments section on this post (#8 or something) after reassembling the guitar, clean amp setting on my Tascam DP-01FX. Below, a snap of the finished result. Looking cool, but somewhat naked without the silkscreen print on the pickup covers.


What's next?
Pots and caps
Each pickup has seperate volume and tone knobs + one master volume. None of them function very well, they are either on or off. Worst off are the ones on the neck pickup. All the pots are dated week 45 in 1965, so I guess there is a really slim chance of finding original ones. However, pots are cheap and I can experiment with new ones (as soon as I figure out which ones to order).

Pickup height
Don't know what optimum height is, but I discovered that this affects at least the distorted tones A LOT. Good thing is that you just need a screw driver to adjust the height, no need to take the guitar apart. Don't even have to slacken the strings.

But that will be a different post...

5 comments:

Wilhelm said...

And as long as I don't do anything that permanently damage the guitar, I'm fine.

This is another area in which we're different. I don't want to dismember any of my guitars, and I don't particularly care to see experts do it either. I believe there's a certain magic that disappears when you see the entire process of guitars.........here I subscribe to the Randy Rhoads philosophy/superstition of guitar construction and maintenance.

So first thing I did was to remove the neck pickup and add a resonantor pickup (Barcus Berry Hi-Tech). And improve in sound showed me that the problem could at least partially be in the pickups. So I dug up some 60's Supro pickup from the good ol' internet.

And here's another thing we don't see eye to eye on; as long as you're changing pickups - why the hell don't you get something with a bit more power in them? Vintage or not (and you can simply put the old ones back if you want to sell it or brag about your geetar on www.oldcrappyguitarsthatsoundlikeshit.com/boards/oneupping) technology here has definitely moved forwards, and you could TOTALLY get better sound (objectively speaking - subjectively I'd suggest Ernie Ball or Bill Lawrence) with new pickups. Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Still; really kewl post - it's very interesting to see the process on other people's geetars. Like sausages and laws, I don't want to know how my guitars are made and tweaked ;-)

Anders said...

And as long as I don't do anything that permanently damage the guitar, I'm fine.

This is another area in which we're different.

So... You feel like you should permanently damage the guitar? I thought you only applied that concept to Nationals and Dobros. ;-)

I don't want to dismember any of my guitars, and I don't particularly care to see experts do it either. I believe there's a certain magic that disappears when you see the entire process of guitars.........here I subscribe to the Randy Rhoads philosophy/superstition of guitar construction and maintenance.

You have had your guitars refrettet (or at least a fret level) and the neck of your Warlock realigned, so it's more "I don't wanna see" rather then "I ruin the mojo of the guitar if it isnt' excatly like it was when it left the factory", right?

I personally believe in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I've never done anything to my Duolian or Takamine, because they play well and I don't want to ruin that or jinx the magic.

And here's another thing we don't see eye to eye on; as long as you're changing pickups - why the hell don't you get something with a bit more power in them?

Power? You mean output, like in more volume? Oh, these ones got lots more volume. After I installed the neck pickup, I compare it to the old bridge pickup. The bridge has been tweeked to give maximum output, while I had set the neck considerable lower. Using the three-way switch, when the neck was load and clear, the brigde was really quiet. Also a great improvement in tone. The be able to use the "distorted" amp settings on my Tascam, I acually had to even further lower (i.e. less volum) the new pickups, otherwise it would sound too muddy.

But I was initially going the new pickup route. Now I think we both agrees that the pickup plays a significant part of the sound in a guitar. So if you're going to replace the pickups in a strat, it would be a very different guitar if you smacked in three humbuckers rather then singlecoils.

But even if the Supro had singlecoils, I was thinking about a set of humbuckers, since the shape of the original once are like humbuckers. However, I soon abondon that idea, 'cause going from single' to 'buckers would mean that I had to replace all the pots and caps as well. Too big job to take on in one go. So I was looking for singel coils with the look of a 'bucker (didn't find many) or something like p-90s. I actually checked out the two companies that builds reproduction of the old Supro's, Zinky Electronics and Eastwood guitars. They had P-90s and single coils that actually looked right. However, I discovered the the way those, and basically any humbucker shaped pu in the marked, required me to drill new holes in the guitar. And that is pretty close to "permanently damage the guitar" in my opinion.

So, when I found a set of vintage ones I went for them since they are drop in replacement. Also, the prize of those are cheaper then a decent set of new pu.

Wilhelm said...

So... You feel like you should permanently damage the guitar?

.....good call - bad phrasing on my part

You have had your guitars refrettet (or at least a fret level) and the neck of your Warlock realigned, so it's more "I don't wanna see" rather then "I ruin the mojo of the guitar if it isnt' excatly like it was when it left the factory", right?

Correct again - I don't want to see it or do it, but sure - let's mod the axe

I totally agree that the pu affects the sound greatly, and I wouldn't switch from SC to HB at all without, for example, changing some of the other hardware. What surprises me is that you couldn't find newer pu's that fit. I'd imagine that you can find pus for just about any geetar and configuration there is....

Anders said...

What surprises me is that you couldn't find newer pu's that fit. I'd imagine that you can find pus for just about any geetar and configuration there is....

The thing is, most pu's are attached with two screws on the side. The Supro pu's are attached with two screws going straight through the pu.

Btw, didn't find any pu on the Erine Ball webpage?

Wilhelm said...

True; I meant DiMarzio